> If you can solve 1, we'll find the money for 2.
Merz & Heine,
What's the proposition(s), vs carbon fiber, for a sub-15 lb bike with a steel frame if the steel frame to be tested is bi-lam?:
"The Claud Butler bi-laminated bronze-welded frames* were lab tested in their day and were proved to be stronger than any other cycle frame comstruction method." -Derek Athey
Joe Starck
Madison, Wisconsin USA
> From: Jan Heine <heine94@earthlink.net>
\r?\n> Subject: Re: [CR] Gimme something metalurgico-scientifico
\r?\n> To: "Jim Merz" <jameshmerz@gmail.com>, "Harry Travis" <travis.harry@gmail.com>
\r?\n> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org, bsandel@verizon.net, "Dave Porter" <frogeye@porterscustom.com>
\r?\n> Date: Tuesday, November 2, 2010, 3:47 PM
\r?\n> At 12:27 PM -0700 11/2/10, Jim Merz
\r?\n> wrote:
\r?\n>
\r?\n> > I had an idea to end this debate. How about we take a
\r?\n> steel frame like you
\r?\n> > are talking about and I will get the test lab to run
\r?\n> it through the tests
\r?\n> > that current frames have to pass. The problem with
\r?\n> this is:
\r?\n> >
\r?\n> > 1) Any builder that supplies the frame is not going to
\r?\n> be super keen on
\r?\n> > seeing a poor result.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> The bigger problem is what we are testing. I don't think
\r?\n> anybody really knows what makes a great bike. I am not even
\r?\n> sure riders can agree what makes a great bike. So how can
\r?\n> you test for something you cannot define? Sure, we can test
\r?\n> weight, or lateral stiffness, or dent resistance, but who
\r?\n> cares? Measuring is the easy part, but designing meaningful
\r?\n> tests is harder.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Even the fatigue tests that companies now do to predict
\r?\n> failures offer only a poor prediction of real-world loads.
\r?\n> That is why you see so many recalls of bike components that
\r?\n> _presumably_ passed the tests with flying colors. On the
\r?\n> other hand, the bike industry engineers tell me their
\r?\n> frustrations with tests that make them beef up components in
\r?\n> places where they never have failed before, just to pass the
\r?\n> tests.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> > 2) How is the cost going to be dealt with?
\r?\n>
\r?\n> If you can solve 1, we'll find the money for 2.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Jan Heine
\r?\n> Editor
\r?\n> Bicycle Quarterly
\r?\n> 2116 Western Ave.
\r?\n> Seattle WA 98121
\r?\n> http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Follow our blog at http://janheine.wordpress.com/