Re: [CR] Fraud Alert-Fake "Ferretti Team Bike On eBay"

(Example: History:Norris Lockley)

References: <262051.80001.qm@web84108.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <150720.68609.qm@web34207.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <AANLkTinHzeSyz9a4ad4yrffeStY-=e8-N73NmGSHJgxx@mail.gmail.com> <8CD8C554BDB7F07-1BB0-D716@webmail-d050.sysops.aol.com> <AANLkTi=3yp4VUqCYWUD23T6=DqkxJYT5ZcKCY+HUYy_n@mail.gmail.com>
To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2011 12:42:54 -0500
In-Reply-To:
From: <oroboyz@aol.com>
Subject: Re: [CR] Fraud Alert-Fake "Ferretti Team Bike On eBay"


<<.. I agree with Lou, I don't know about the provenance however the frame looks to be period correct to me. The seller states that there is a 1972 build date, stamped onto the steerer - a photo would have been good. Were there Ferretti Team replicas made back in 1972? What ever the case it looks to be a very nice bike. >>

Dear all:

This bike is an attractive unit; whether it is a creative recreation or a genuine team bike is unclear and probably not to be discovered by any of us. The auction description does state it is a restoration, so that opens the door to a possible bag of worms. Or not!

The seller is a well known vintage bicycle collector and seller but one who has had his share of controversy over the years. His knowledge is broad and he has had some of the world's most desirable lightweight vintage bikes pass through his hands, yet he is avoided by many in this hobby because of the dramas that have surrounded him!

Vintage lightweight collecting is not as refined as many other fields, and the monies involved and financial consequences not as dramatic. Dr. Hollenberg's expectations are those practiced in the art world but almost never practiced in bicycle collecting. As the investment (?) $ level ascends in this hobby, perhaps higher standards of provenance may be in order. But now, those standards are not held to.

So how are we to judge an eBay auction's description for accuracy or fanciful exaggeration? As with everything, Caveat Emptor ("Let the buyer beware")! That is unless you are intimately familiar with the exact product up for sale, it's every detail and the reputation of the seller.

FYI, I have asked the good Dr. H to tone down his accusatory tone and simply state the facts ("Mame"?)

Thanks Dale

Dale Brown Greensboro, North Carolina USA http://www.classicrendezvous.com

-----Original Message----- From: Mike Short <avartist@gmail.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Sent: Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:40 am Subject: Re: [CR] Fraud Alert-Fake "Ferretti Team Bike On eBay"

I agree with Lou, I don't know about the provenance however the frame looks to be period correct to me. The seller states that there is a 1972 build date, stamped onto the steerer - a photo would have been good. Were there Ferretti Team replicas made back in 1972? What ever the case it looks to be a very nice bike.

Mike Short, Austin Texas, USA.

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 10:20 AM, <loudeeter@aol.com> wrote:
> What part of it is fake? The frame looks to be a Masi from that era. That
> could explain the brakes, right? I understand your point about it possibly
> not being a team bike, but it is still a nice bike. I also understand your
> animosity toward all things from this seller. I don't know whether that is
> a "Boston" thing, or just that you are ticked off at him for some reason.
> Lou Deeter, Orlando FL
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: George Hollenberg <ghollmd@gmail.com>
> To: Fred Rednor <fred_rednor@yahoo.com>
> Cc: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:16 am
> Subject: Re: [CR] Fraud Alert-Fake "Ferretti Team Bike On eBay"
>
>
> The point is not the brakes-this was a Faliero innovation in about 1968 to
> prevent to many holes being drilled into the brake bridge-but who cares--
> the brakes are attached to a FAKE-this is NOT a Masi-Ferretti. It's a fraud
> designed to fool us. I can't believe that no one is saying anything abut
> this. Who cares about the brakes!
> George
> George Hollenberg MD
>
> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 9:45 AM, Fred Rednor <fred_rednor@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > The central bolt is removed from the brake, shortened and brazed into the
> > frame. Then the calipers are reassembled in the usual manner.
> > Fred Rednor - Arlington, Virginia (USA)
> >
> > --- On Thu, 1/27/11, Anthony Taylor <ajft1942@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > From: Anthony Taylor <ajft1942@yahoo.com>
> > > Subject: Re: [CR] Fraud Alert-Fake "Ferretti Team Bike On eBay"
> > > To: "George Hollenberg" <ghollmd@gmail.com>, "Classic Rendezvous" <
> > classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> > > Date: Thursday, January 27, 2011, 9:21 AM
> > > It may just be ignorance on my part,
> > > but how are the brakes attached?
> > >
> > > Tony Taylor
> > > Manchester, NH
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: George Hollenberg <ghollmd@gmail.com>
> > > To: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> > > Sent: Thu, January 27, 2011 5:42:12 AM
> > > Subject: [CR] Fraud Alert-Fake "Ferretti Team Bike On
> > > eBay"
> > >
> > > A bike claimed to be a "Professional cycle of the Ferretti
> > > team of 1972 that
> > > included the Petterssen brothers and Gianni Motta", eBay
> > > #120676480890 is
> > > not as represented-it's a fake.
> > > The seller approached Alberto Masi (personal communication)
> > > and asked him to
> > > certify the bike as that of Ghosta Pettersen-but Ghosta
> > > Pettersen's bike was
> > > a 62.5 and Alberto noted that a Ferretti Masi didn't sport
> > > De Rosa decals as
> > > seen on this eBay bike.
> > > Furthermore, the seller presents no proof and no
> > > provenance that this bike
> > > was ever owned by anyone on the Ferretti Masi team
> > > and he never will
> > > produce such evidence because it doesn't exist. Many
> > > Ferretti repros exist
> > > and one is listed in the same size as the eBay seller's
> > > bike listed as a
> > > reproduction in Bob Hovey's Masi Archive.
> > > What we have is just a Masi painted and tarted up as a Masi
> > > Ferretti-*let
> > > the seller prove otherwise.*
> > > George
> > >
> > > George Hollenberg MD
> > > CT, USA
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> George
>
> George Hollenberg MD
> CT, USA