I don't know why I always get into this but......I totally agree with David, Brandon, Ken, etc and have posted so when this was last discussed on the list. My 74 Masi Gran Criterium, bought as a frame, never had a panographed part. Nor, did it want one. To tell you the truth, at the time I never saw, or for that matter, ever heard of a Martano rim. Everybody I knew was racing on Nisi or Fiamme rims than switched to Super Champions of one version or another. Pantographing looked nice but had nothing to do with racing these bikes. Who wanted to pay for that when you knew that you were going to crash and your brake levers, chainsets, etc were going to get bunged up for sure. That stuff was nice (and still is) to look at, but had NOTHING to do with how these bikes were actually raced and ridden. You saw this stuff at the bike show at the NY Coliseum and on the wanabee bikes in Central Park. Edward, would like a pantographed Colnago Gruppo about now, Albert Chappaqua, NY
Ken Freeeman wrote:
>I also want to voice support for Dave's point and Brandon's. If I had owned
>a Masi back in it's day, I'd have done parts replacements as needed or
>wanted with the best stuff available to me. I would not, for example, have
>waited for my LBS to find and source Martano rims when he may have had an
>anodized Mavic on hand and could get me going again sooner. If the bars
>were not suitable for me, I'd have got suitable bars but better if possible.
>I might even have bought used parts and put them on. I think modern
>interpretations of original vintage bikes are perfectly acceptable with
>vintage parts of the day. I would not call them "restorations," however,
>since the term indicates that some previous state is known, and the machine
>has been returned to that state accurately. In many of our vintage
>lightweights, no such states exist, because the frames and parts were bought
>as customized sets.
>
>Ken Freeman, Ann Arbor, MI
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org
>[mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of Brandon Ives
>Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 12:24 PM
>To: David Patrick
>Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Subject: "Correct" (Re: [CR]Ssssspeedster's Masi & Proper Twin Plate Resto)
>
>Dave I'm 100% with you and have wanted to say these same words for a few
>years now. I do think I understand where the other side is coming from. My
>guess is trying to spec bikes just like the catalog or show photo from the
>time. Of course also many manufacturers had a preferred spec too and sold
>bikes fully kited out and that needs to be taken into account. I will
>probably never own a "correct" bike since the whole idea just bothers me.
>If I had bought the discussed Masi new as a frame you can bet dollars to
>doughnuts that I would have speced it way different than the pics in the
>mags. I really like when I see a bike that reflects the owner as much as
>the builder. For me bikes built as pictured are boring and unimaginative.
>best,
>Brandon"monkeyman"Ives
>Vancouver, B.C.
>
>On Sunday, Dec 11, 2005, at 08:48 US/Pacific, David Patrick wrote:
>
>
>> During Bob Hovey's reply to Steven Maasland, Bob made the comment:
>>"..the hardest part of doing a proper '74 twin plate restoration is
>>finding those engraved Masi ttt bars..". Bob, I mean absolutely no
>>disrespect, so please don't misunderstand me, but this comment bugs
>>the %$&# out of me. Why does a properly restored twin-plate Masi GC
>>need to have engraved Masi 3t bars to be "correct" or properly
>>restored? Is your comment based on the fact that some twin-plate Masi
>>frames were equipped with these bars when purchased as a complete
>>bike? In putting forth these types of comments, some are loosing
>>touch with the fact that these Masi GCs were bought as bare frames and
>>built up with period components of the time. So it would be correct
>>to see these period correct components on a "properly restored '74
>>twin-plate Masi, wouldn't it? I'd say engraved Cinelli bars were the
>>most commonly seen bar on any high-end Italian road bike from from the
>>1970s. Perhaps Bob's comment is based on the fact that engraved Masi
>>3t bars are very rare? I just don't think that in any stretch of the
>>imagination should a '74 twin-plate Masi GC w/engraved Cinelli bars be
>>viewed in a lesser light than the same bike w/engraved Masi 3t bars.
>>I hate to see this mind-set where one type of component is viewed as
>>"correct" for a bike, as rarely is this the case when we're dealing
>>with a period when framesets were quite frequently sold as a
>>stand-alone item and built up to the rider's wish. I've ranted before
>>about how Martano rims are viewed by many as THE "correct" rim for
>>1970s Masi bikes. So, perhaps I'm stirring the pot this morning,
>>which can be a good thing in my mind, so heap it on, my fellow CR
>>members. What say you?
>>
>>
>> Dave Patrick
>> Chelsea, Michigan (no, I haven't had ANY caffeine this morning)