Charles: I don't think we differ completely, and, I must congratulate you on a good set of eyes regarding this Colnago bike. Due to the shabby images I couldn't appreciate the fork detail and still can't. Therefore, as far as I can see, the date of its manufacture will have to remain in the obscurity created by the seller-perhaps to his own detriment. Perhaps this was a great classic bike, but I can't be sure. The rest of the discussion is one of semantics, i.e. what represents a high quality restoration. This is further confused by whether wants to have the bike as a "rider", etc. Furthermore, I'm not in the habit of encouraging Joe Bell, or any other painter or artisan, to do other than his best work. If I do have restoration work done, I always try to respect the original paint, color,and kit, as much as is possible, while trying to create a very clean appearing and sound bike. Some call this "picky", or worse. You are very familiar with my tastes in restored bikes-enough said. I also would like to reiterate the feelings of some respected collectors that any form of restoration beyond cleaning is anathema. I respect, but don't share their view. In sort, it's a subjective matter that a "simple analysis" can't solve. Regards, George George Hollenberg MD CT, USA
On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Charles Andrews <chasds@mindspring.com>wrote:
> George H. wrote, in part, with regard to ebay # 300343941251
>
> The expense of doing this correctly would be over $3000, perhaps much, much
> more. In the end, you have a pricey replica (or whatever name one
> likes)-with an overall investment of more than $4000-nearly the price of a
> similar unrestored bike. As you know, the current sentiment among some
> American collectors doesn't favor this sort of restoration-in fact they hold
> such restored bikes in contempt.
> In short, I agree that there are great classic bikes out there, but I can't
> tell whether this was one of them.
> Regards,
>
> *****************
>
> George and I differ on this. A simple analysis clears up any confusion.
> This bike really was a great deal, whether you restored it or not, but
> let's say you did.
>
> You buy the bike for $800 including shipping. Strip it. Take it to your
> favorite painter (or ship to Joe Bell or CyclArt, or whoever, according to
> your ste). Paint, remove braze-ons, chromed fork crown and front drops
> (chrome is not required, btw, some of these frames came without any chrome
> at all, although most of them had chromed crowns, that I've seen), proper
> graphics--now easily available as far as I'm aware--will cost between 600
> and 900 bucks. Add to the 800 bucks you paid for the bike. Salvage any
> parts that are correct for the period--brakes, pedals, cranks, and brake
> levers, hubs and skewers, bars and stem (note cool nutted cinelli stem) and
> seatpost were all period correct, far as I could tell. Might even have been
> original. You need proper racing sew-up wheels, unicanitor saddle, Nuovo
> record derailleurs, Regina corsa chain.
>
> Mike Kone is still selling some nice period spokes that would be perfect
> for a high-flange wheel-set if you wanted to build new. Period rims are
> plentiful, esp,. period Nisis, which commonly came on these.
>
> Superleggere pedals would have been a plausible period upgrade within a
> year of the original sale, so those are keepers..sell or keep the other
> parts as they're nice enough, heck, the wheels and derailleurs alone would
> go for over 300 bucks easy if you don't want to use them for something else.
> Proper dt shifters are easy to find if the ones on it aren't original.
>
> You can do your own math, but mine says that with a little time, effort,
> and patience, you can get this bike perfectly restored down to the last
> detail for around 2K, all-in, ready-to-ride, maybe even less, but certainly
> not much more if you're careful. A little more if you like expensive tires!
> Even if it came to 2500 all up, still a bargain, but no way it should cost
> you any more than that.
>
> Some of this depends on how picky you are. Some of these early 70s bikes
> had upgrades like fluted seatposts and stems, but these were not common. As
> another poster pointed out, the pantografata stuff was not sold on these
> early colnagos, and, truth is, many of these were sold as frame/fork only,
> and built to taste by the local shop.
>
> As for the "contempt" in which "some" collectors hold restored bikes..well,
> it's not restoration that's problematic, it's the style of the restoration,
> about which I'll say no more..we all have our own taste in the matter, but I
> could see buying that bike, and taking the frame to Joe Bell, and discussing
> with him in some detail exactly how I wanted it done, and I would have ended
> up with a bike that you couldn't tell from original 6 feet away. Get closer
> and you'd probably find the decals put on a bit too precisely, as Joe is
> very picky about that, and I don't have a problem with that. <g> Other
> than that, it might take awhile to figure out that it was repainted, or so
> would be my goal.
>
> Maybe I could have gotten Joe to paint the fill a bit sloppy...but probably
> not, he's very picky about that too. But the paint itself we'd do it so
> that you would have to really look carefully to determine if it was
> original, or a repaint.
>
> At any rate, it would be a very enjoyable period rider without a too-rich
> financial investment..and, I can assure you, if a bike like the one I would
> make out of that one came on the market, totally original, it'd easily sell
> for nearly twice what I would have had in the restored bike, so, to me,
> that's a good deal.
>
> Really makes me wish that bike had been my size...I'd have done it up
> Molteni Orange. It would have been fun.
>
> Charles Andrews
> Los Angeles
>
>
>
> "everyone has elites; the important thing is
> to change them from time to time."
>
> --Joseph Schumpeter, via Simon Johnson
> _______________________________________________
>
-- George
George Hollenberg MD
CT, USA