Re: [CR]Re: more on decals

(Example: Framebuilders:Masi)

Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 18:36:59 -0500
From: Jerry & Liz Moos <>
To: Monkeyman <>
Subject: Re: [CR]Re: more on decals
References: <l03130300b6a36eb19b05@[]>

Actually, it was Cinelli that was knocked off by Windsor. Early Windsor Pros had the characteristic Cinelli seatstay, and the story (true or not) was that Windsor had hired a former Cinelli frame production supervisor. I have a Windsor Pro, and find it a nice enough bike in its own right, that I would never want to pass it off as a Cinelli. Although I have sympathy for buyers of counterfeited bikes, I have none whatsoever for the companies whose bikes are knocked off. In nearly all cases they themselves created the need for reproduced decals through their arrogant, irresponsible, "the public be damned" attitude of refusing to lift a finger to help legitimate owners of their products obtain replacement decals. There have been a few exceptions - I've heard that Eddy Merckx, for example is quite helpful as was Schwinn in some eras.. But most of the large producers wouldn't even help much with current decals for repaints, let alone with accurate decals for classic models. Reynolds, at one time, was among the worst, virtually requiring an owner to obtain a joint resolution of Congress and the British Parliament before condescending to supply replacement decals. I once had a frame repainted by a well-known framebuilder, and even he could only obatin the butt-ugly Reynolds "Respray" decal, which I don't think even indicated if the tubing was butted or not.


Jerry Moos

Monkeyman wrote:
> Jim wrote:
> > I only use them as part of properly servicing the correct frames.
> >This is a permitted use because we take responsibility for the frames
> >correct identification and roadworthiness. We do not compromise the
> >trademark owner's control or increase his liability on old product.
> Something else to think about is I know all of us have seen a faked bike or
> fifty. I'm not sure where people have gotten the decals but I've had many
> an obvious english bike with italian decals walk into the shop. One of the
> more legendary ones were Windsors relabeled as Masis. Remember in the 70's
> every shop had a ton of 531 frame decals. Decals being available to
> anybody does lead to fakes and wether the person has good intentions or bad
> it's a bad things for bike collectors and the cycling community at large.
> In the pricing of a restoration people must also remember the price of
> decals can sometimes be more than the price of paint. I've been looking
> into getting my Raleigh Lenton Grand Prix restored but the price of the
> downtube decal alone is more than I have into the bike right now. I think
> everyone who loves bikes and has the know-how should try their hand at a
> full restoration but don't be shocked if someone doesn't want to sell you
> decals. With a hand scanner and photoshop it's easy enough to recreate
> your own decals, but also tough enough so you'll understand why Jim and
> Brian's cost so much.
> enjoy,
> Brandon"monkeyman"Ives
> sunny 78 Santa Barbara
> Brandon and Mitzi's-- "Wurld uv Wunder"
> Monkeyman's on going bicycle part garage sale <<<NEW LISTINGS>>>
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> Nobody can do everything,
> but if everybody did something
> everything would get done.
> -Gil Scott Heron-
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!