Re: [CR]Re: What really sells a race frame

(Example: Production Builders:Cinelli:Laser)

Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:35:44 -0800
Subject: Re: [CR]Re: What really sells a race frame
From: "Terence Shaw" <>
To: <>, <>
In-Reply-To: <>

As according to Dave Moulton his largest dealer and the owner of half a dozen of his frames including a "full chrome except the main tubes" Dave finished his bikes to American tastes. He would often state that an Englishman would be judge a bike by the ride an American by the looks. One of the reasons for the introduction of the Fuso was to stop an upward spiral of chrome and paint options on the Moulton frames which Dave thought were frivolous. While I'm a fan of Brian's work (they're a joy to work on and test ride) I hope I don't upset any CR list people when I still prefer to ride a 20 year old sl/sp Moulton (in need of it's fourth repaint) with a 2001 Campagnolo group! T. Shaw Santa Clara, California

> From: Brian Baylis <>
> Reply-To:
> Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 07:16:53 -0800
> To:
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: [CR]Re: What really sells a race frame
> Martin,
> There is a running joke amongst bike painters about how much the frame
> counts compared to what the paint job looks like. I just mentioned to
> the World Famous Lou Deeter the other day that many observers of lugged
> bike frames do not know what "IS" lugwork and what isn't. Many can't see
> past a nice paint job. I've seen a pretty good number pigs made into
> silk purses by a good painter. Happens every day. Even a bare frame
> tells only a fraction of the story in regards to what kind of care was
> taken during construction. All it takes to distract most people from the
> actual details of a frame is a "pretty face".
> Since I'm on both sides of the fence I get a laugh out of the situation.
> Dave Tesch used to get quite upset when he would deliver a new frame to
> someone and the first and only thing they would say was how beautiful
> the paint job was. Made Dave crazy to hear that. Dave Moulton knew the
> "paint principal", which is heavily amplified by chrome, VERY well. I
> would say he got more out of the paint bit than any framebuilder in
> history. His reputation was truely built on marketing/promotion/fancy
> paint (which he picked up in a hurry from a certain few So. Cal.
> painters) in a way I've never seen before or since. For the level of
> frames that the paint went on there has not been anyone who got more
> milage out of slick paint in dazzleing colors than Moulton.
> It's a fact of life; back in the day, chrome and paint sold bikes in
> MOST cases. Period.
> Brian Baylis
> La Mesa, CA
> Wish it weren't true; doesn't matter to me if it is.
>> All this talk about race material and weight for race frames has not touched
>> on the really important aspect of frame selection. Does it look nice! I
>> always pick my frames on this principle. I like chromed bits, so they usually
>> end up being steel. Nothing to do with the fact that I weight nearly 200 lbs.
>> Nice paint sells frames.
>> Regards
>> Martin Coopland