Re: [CR]re: ebay PX-10

Example: Framebuilding:Paint

Date: Mon, 08 May 2006 15:41:16 -0400
From: George Allen <>
Subject: Re: [CR]re: ebay PX-10
In-Reply-To: <>
References: <>

Past discussions along these lines have sent me scurrying into the basement to look at the lugs on my bikes. Bottom line: the lugs aren't too bad on my Internationals and Competition but the brazing is just god-awful. Clumps, gaps etc. My 1971 International wrap-over seat stays look like a D- in high school shop class. My 1972 Pro is brazed nicely and while a little more time could've been spent filing the lugs, they're not too bad. My Team frames from Ilkeston are different animals altogether. The lug shorelines are contoured nicely and the brazing is very good. I'm sure some of the great bespoke American and Italian frames would put them to shame but for production bikes they are rather nice. Also, my 1966 Mercian has some beautifully done Nervex lugs. Though I have nothing against Peugeot, I must agree with Charles that the lugs on the Peugeot in question are a particularly egregious example of the "French Style" of frame building (exceptions being Singer, Herse et al). And just so the Francophiles don't throw rocks in my direction, I just took delivery of a 1978 Motobecane Grand Record. And the lugs and brazing on it are very presentable.

George Allen Lexington, KY

At 03:00 PM 5/8/2006, LDD wrote:
>Here here my good man from Texas....
> I agree.....w/o the PX-10's or the Gitanes to
> fuel the bike boom (incidentally that is the
> period that 90% of this list discusses:
> 1970-early 80's) what would have been the state
> of the period? I know far more folks have
> owned at some point in time a Raleigh, a Gitane or a Peugeot than a Masi.
> In reference to the commentator from
> SoCal......I hope your remarks are tongue in
> cheek.....'self-respecting' and so on..........?
>Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <> wrote:
> Don't know why this particular PX-10 should
> offend anyone's sense of aesthetics. Neither
> Peugeot nor most of the high volume French
> manufacturers spent a lot of time finishing lug
> edges and Raleigh wasn't much different. It's
> nice to see lugs filed to super thin edges, and
> one rather expects it on a $2500 to $3000 KOF
> frame, but this PX-10 originally sold for about
> $250 complete. That was a hell of a bargain,
> and I've never seen any evidence that failure
> to file the lugs made the joint any less
> strong. I guess if you are obsessive about lug
> finishing, you just don't collect French bikes
> (exept Herse and Singer) or Raleighs. This is
> rather like abusing early 50's British sports
> cars for their Solex carburetors and Lucas
> electrics. Sure, this stuff was crap compared
> to Bosch and Weber, but affordable British
> sports cars made a much bigger social impact
> than the more elegant Ferraris and Maseratis.
> And PX-10 a much bigger impact than Masi.
>Jerry Moos "Five Peugeots, three Raleighs, no Masis"
>Big Sping, TX
>"C. Andrews" wrote:
>Robert Broderick wrote:
>I am not in the habit of outing eBay auctions to this list,
>but in this
>particular instance I simply could not resist as this one is
>simply too good
>on too many levels. For all you Peugeot pundits and
>confirmed Francophiles:
>eBay auction number 7240253678
>Yes indeed, a vintage 1974 PX-10E whose seller purports it
>to have never
>Actually, it looks like what it's described to be...right
>down to a set of Dubois lugs that appear to have been taken
>straight out of the box, brazed onto the tubes in question,
>and painted, with nary a file or even a little sandpaper to
>sully their charming shorelines.
>I'll concede that the pristine graphics and paint and parts
>are kinda cool...but a level of workmanship that could
>easily be exceeded by a 6th grade shop class seems worth
>I'd really like to know how it happened that the guys at
>Peugeot thought it was ok to do that. If I didn't know
>better, I'd swear it was an ironic comment on any and all
>finished lugs... it's as if they were saying "check it out.
>No workmanship *at all* and we can still sell the thing!"
>To each their own...but really. I mean, c'mon. The lugs on
>that frame are disgraceful. And, in that period, all the
>PX-10s looked like that. How could any self-respecting CR
>member stand to look at them, let alone own them?
>Charles Andrews
>"The deeper I go in considering the
>vanities of popular reasoning, the
>lighter and more foolish I find them."


>--Galileo Galilei