Re: [CR]Mysteries of framebuilding


Example: Production Builders:Cinelli

Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 05:14:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: Nick Zatezalo <nickzz@mindspring.com>
To: "brianbaylis@juno.com" <brianbaylis@juno.com>, bobhoveyga@aol.com
Subject: Re: [CR]Mysteries of framebuilding
cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

Some very convincing points are brought forth by Bob, Brain, & others.

However most of these points support the premise that financial reward / profit motive must be absent or at most a very minor consideration to yield highest quality creative skills.

I don't think financial reward/profit motive need be absent for creativity to flourish. It is my premise that these factors being present can actually help stimulate and even expand one's creativity.

The under-appreciated, misunderstood artisan plying his trade in poverty and/or obscurity is just one scenario of many possibilities that exist. Just as there are multiple and varied motivations within all of us.

Nick Zatezalo Atlanta,Ga.US

-----Original Message-----

>From: "brianbaylis@juno.com" <brianbaylis@juno.com>

>Sent: Jun 1, 2007 3:17 AM

>To: bobhoveyga@aol.com

>Cc: brianbaylis@juno.com, nickzz@mindspring.com, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

>Subject: Re: [CR]Mysteries of framebuilding

>

>

>Bob,

>

>Albert is somewhat like you describe. But his main interest is in the

>new bikes they are building at any given time. One reason. There is no

>money in the older bikes. Only the current bikes generate income. The

>old bikes are just attached to people who want to know more about them

>and waste his time asking questions. I found Ernesto Colnago to be

>exactly the same way, upon the one occasion I had the opportunity to

>ask him if there were any early 70's bikes floating around in Italy.

>

>As a musician myself, I have to give a different perspective on

>performing music. During the process of playing music, at least for me

>it requires a lot of concentration. Also the balance of the entire

>presentation is not best heard from my vantage point. I have to admit,

>listening to recordings of performances and rehearsals is something I

>enjoy tremendously. Two reasons. I can hear the entire work from the

>perspective of the audience. Second, it is by far the best way to hear

>what needs to be improved or hear the things I didn't hear while

>performing the music. 90% of the music I listen to are recording of

>groups I've played with over the years. Actually more satisfying than

>playing the music, which for me involves a certain amount of stress

>and intense concentration.

>

>Insofar as framebuilding goes; my primary joy is in building the bike

>and using my brains and my hands to create it. To have others tell me

>they love their bike or think my work is great is good and all that;

>but it does not compare to actually doing the work. Riding my bikes is

>fun too; but I have LOTS of great bikes and most of them are a joy to

>ride. Builders who only ride their own bikes are very shortsighted and

>stand to miss a lot that can be learned from other peoples work.

>Making lots of bikes for oneself is great also. I've made over 50

>bikes for myself over the last 35 years. That's how you learn. Ride

>everything. Make a variety of bikes and learn as much as you can about

>each one that is within your area of interest.

>

>Brian Baylis

>La Mesa, CA

>

>-- "Bob Hovey" <bobhoveyga@aol.com> wrote:

>Oh, and there's more to the story... this lady went for years trying

>to

>figure out ways NOT to sell her work. She gave quilts to relatives,

>then

>friends, then her doctor, dentist, and hairdresser. When her output

>finally

>outstripped her supply of friends, she would just spread the most

>recent

>quilt on the bed in her guest room. When I met her, they went at

>least two

>dozen deep on that bed. But still her attitude remained that she was

>not

>going to pollute her one real joy in life by taking money for it. In

>the

>back of her mind I think she knew that they would get sold someday,

>just not

>by her... perhaps her daughter would sell them after she died to put

>her

>granchildren thru college or something.

>

>The return she got from her quilting brings up an interesting point,

>one

>that's worth examining because we all know that almost no one becomes

>a

>framebuilder thinking they will make a lot of money... almost everyone

>has

>other reasons, some of them perhaps bordering on compulsion. So what

>is the

>primary source of satisfaction artists and craftsmen get from their

>work? I

>know quite a few painters who admire the work they've done and always

>keep a

>few of their best pieces on the wall (if they can afford to), and I

>know

>many craftsmen who enjoy using the objects they create, including

>quite a

>few framebuilders who really enjoy riding their own bikes.

>

>But I know other artists who could care less about a piece once it is

>done.

>For them, the only real joy is in the doing, and once a work is

>completed it

>becomes an object like any other and they exhibit a peculiar

>disconnection

>or even disdain for the piece. Several folks have mentioned on the

>list

>that Eisentraut may be a bit like this, he seems to display no

>interest at

>all in his past work and expresses amusement and puzzlement over those

>who

>do. Perhaps these people are more like musicians than traditional

>artists... because once the last note of a piece of music fades, it is

>no

>more. All that is left for the musician who only feels truly alive

>when he

>is playing is to continually look to the next song.

>

>Bob Hovey

>Columbus, GA

>

>

>Brian Writes:

>

>If I could do as the quilter did (alas, I'm not a receptionist), I

>would do so also. The pleasure and satisfaction of spending enough

>time on a frame to make it purposful and unique at the same time is

>satisfaction enough to feed the soul and give purpose to life. The

>only standards that I have lowered in order to continue as I do are my

>standard of living. There are other ways to approach the situation,

>but the system I abide by works for me.

>

>Brian Baylis

>La Mesa, CA

>

>

>-- BobHoveyGa@aol.com wrote:

><snipped> I knew a wonderful quilter

>who

>worked as a receptionist and gave her quilts away only to those she

>felt would

>appreciate them. She would spend several hundred hours on a quilt

>and for her it

>was all about love, so she was not about to hand it over to strangers

>for

>money.

>

>Bob Hovey

>Columbus, GA USA