Some very convincing points are brought forth by Bob, Brain, & others.
However most of these points support the premise that financial reward / profit motive must be absent or at most a very minor consideration to yield highest quality creative skills.
I don't think financial reward/profit motive need be absent for creativity to flourish. It is my premise that these factors being present can actually help stimulate and even expand one's creativity.
The under-appreciated, misunderstood artisan plying his trade in poverty and/or obscurity is just one scenario of many possibilities that exist. Just as there are multiple and varied motivations within all of us.
Nick Zatezalo Atlanta,Ga.US
>From: "email@example.com" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
>Sent: Jun 1, 2007 3:17 AM
>Cc: email@example.com, firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com
>Subject: Re: [CR]Mysteries of framebuilding
>Albert is somewhat like you describe. But his main interest is in the
>new bikes they are building at any given time. One reason. There is no
>money in the older bikes. Only the current bikes generate income. The
>old bikes are just attached to people who want to know more about them
>and waste his time asking questions. I found Ernesto Colnago to be
>exactly the same way, upon the one occasion I had the opportunity to
>ask him if there were any early 70's bikes floating around in Italy.
>As a musician myself, I have to give a different perspective on
>performing music. During the process of playing music, at least for me
>it requires a lot of concentration. Also the balance of the entire
>presentation is not best heard from my vantage point. I have to admit,
>listening to recordings of performances and rehearsals is something I
>enjoy tremendously. Two reasons. I can hear the entire work from the
>perspective of the audience. Second, it is by far the best way to hear
>what needs to be improved or hear the things I didn't hear while
>performing the music. 90% of the music I listen to are recording of
>groups I've played with over the years. Actually more satisfying than
>playing the music, which for me involves a certain amount of stress
>and intense concentration.
>Insofar as framebuilding goes; my primary joy is in building the bike
>and using my brains and my hands to create it. To have others tell me
>they love their bike or think my work is great is good and all that;
>but it does not compare to actually doing the work. Riding my bikes is
>fun too; but I have LOTS of great bikes and most of them are a joy to
>ride. Builders who only ride their own bikes are very shortsighted and
>stand to miss a lot that can be learned from other peoples work.
>Making lots of bikes for oneself is great also. I've made over 50
>bikes for myself over the last 35 years. That's how you learn. Ride
>everything. Make a variety of bikes and learn as much as you can about
>each one that is within your area of interest.
>La Mesa, CA
>-- "Bob Hovey" <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
>Oh, and there's more to the story... this lady went for years trying
>figure out ways NOT to sell her work. She gave quilts to relatives,
>friends, then her doctor, dentist, and hairdresser. When her output
>outstripped her supply of friends, she would just spread the most
>quilt on the bed in her guest room. When I met her, they went at
>dozen deep on that bed. But still her attitude remained that she was
>going to pollute her one real joy in life by taking money for it. In
>back of her mind I think she knew that they would get sold someday,
>by her... perhaps her daughter would sell them after she died to put
>granchildren thru college or something.
>The return she got from her quilting brings up an interesting point,
>that's worth examining because we all know that almost no one becomes
>framebuilder thinking they will make a lot of money... almost everyone
>other reasons, some of them perhaps bordering on compulsion. So what
>primary source of satisfaction artists and craftsmen get from their
>know quite a few painters who admire the work they've done and always
>few of their best pieces on the wall (if they can afford to), and I
>many craftsmen who enjoy using the objects they create, including
>few framebuilders who really enjoy riding their own bikes.
>But I know other artists who could care less about a piece once it is
>For them, the only real joy is in the doing, and once a work is
>becomes an object like any other and they exhibit a peculiar
>or even disdain for the piece. Several folks have mentioned on the
>that Eisentraut may be a bit like this, he seems to display no
>all in his past work and expresses amusement and puzzlement over those
>do. Perhaps these people are more like musicians than traditional
>artists... because once the last note of a piece of music fades, it is
>more. All that is left for the musician who only feels truly alive
>is playing is to continually look to the next song.
>If I could do as the quilter did (alas, I'm not a receptionist), I
>would do so also. The pleasure and satisfaction of spending enough
>time on a frame to make it purposful and unique at the same time is
>satisfaction enough to feed the soul and give purpose to life. The
>only standards that I have lowered in order to continue as I do are my
>standard of living. There are other ways to approach the situation,
>but the system I abide by works for me.
>La Mesa, CA
>-- BobHoveyGa@aol.com wrote:
><snipped> I knew a wonderful quilter
>worked as a receptionist and gave her quilts away only to those she
>appreciate them. She would spend several hundred hours on a quilt
>and for her it
>was all about love, so she was not about to hand it over to strangers
>Columbus, GA USA